Debate Unlimited Forum

[Martin Willett]

In order to help members of the forum "get where you're coming from" it would be helpful for participants in the atheism forum to give a summary of their beliefs so that we do not waste time attacking views that you do not hold.

THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR DEBATE

Please restrict yourself to a single post, which you may later edit (please let us know if your views have changed and what you have changed).

Do not reply to or refer to anybody else's posts. Posts which do not comply with this rule will be deleted.

Here's a rough idea, feel free to improvise around this theme, the important thing is to tell us where you are coming from in a very economical way.

=================================================

I am:-

Martin Willett, born in England 1963, living in England. Married man with two teenage children.

Credo:-

I don't believe in God

I don't believe in gods

I don't believe in goddesses

I don't believe in a human soul

I don't believe in disembodied spirits

I don't believe in reincarnation or any afterlife

I don't believe that man is anything other than an animal with a high degree of self awareness

I don't believe in fate

I don't believe in destiny

I don't believe there is a meaning of life

I don't believe that irrational beliefs are ever right

I don't believe that religion and superstition should go unchallenged

I believe that the optimum number of religions in the world is zero

I believe that we risk creating ideas which will destroy us

I believe that we are people, not souls, not collections of genes, not representatives of ideas and we should live accordingly.


Self identifies as:-

atheist (small a)

Bright

agnostic (I don't KNOW there are no gods, I believe there are no gods and I keep an open mind)

secular humanist

liberal

phenoemancipationist (I am not my genes or my memes I am a man, long live the freedom of the phenotype!)

republican (as in anti-monarchist)

Member of:-

The Church of England (why burn bridges?)

I believe in:

the power of the Darwinian algorithm to produce design without Mind

utilitarianism

I scoff at:-


post-modernism

religion

superstition

ritual

magical thinking

ages of miracles, the dreamtime, biblical times etc.

destiny

ultimate purpose

The smartest idea ever:-

Darwin's dangerous idea

The worst idea ever

Faith is a virtue

==================

You may want to list heroes, gurus, pastors, mentors and the like but we don't want a bibliography.

[Raskolnikov]

Who I am:-

My name is Dimitri, I was born in 1979 in Belgium.

Credo:-

I don't believe in the supernatural.

I don't believe that man is anything other than an animal with a high degree of self awareness.

I don't believe there is a meaning of life.

I don't believe that religion and superstition should go unchallenged.

I believe in science as the only tool to acquire knowledge.

I believe that most people and especially faithheads don't want knowledge, but certainty. This is the fundamental error of their thinking. (If they think at all)

Self identifies as:-

atheist

agnostic

scientific skeptic (meaning not the extreme pyrrhonian kind)

I scoff at:-

post-modernism, religion, superstition, rituals, magical thinking, destiny,...

[Silenoz]

I am:

JJ Stenitzer, from the USA, born in 1988, an IT support guy who loves his partner and beer above all else.

Credo:

I subscribe to no brand of supernatural, metaphysical, or otherworldly beliefs.

I do not believe in or support any rigid system of ethics or morals.

I believe the only universal truth is the apparent lack thereof such truths.

I believe all perceived meaning in the universe is illusory.

Self identifies as:

atheist - no belief in God/gods.

agnostic - believe God/gods are unknowable.

secular humanist - we are our only resource to improve our lives.

libertarian - infinite personal freedom for all, except the freedom to impede others.

politically unaffiliated - political parties are irrelevant / representation is irrelevant.

Member of:

Nothing

I believe in:

The scientific method and what it has scrutinized.

My own perception, for what little it's worth.

I scoff at:

Everything else

The smartest idea ever:

Written language

The dumbest idea ever:

Monarchy- political, religious, or otherwise.

My strengths are:

Patience

Precise language

My weaknesses are:

Cynicism

Other people

[Cloud Walker]

I am:-

Tom, born 1983, raised, and still living in the St. Louis area, Missouri, United States. I'm not married but not single.

Credo:-

I don't believe in deities

I don't believe in a human soul

I don't believe in disembodied spirits

I don't believe in reincarnation or any afterlife

I don't believe that man is anything other than an animal with a high degree of self awareness

I don't believe in fate

I don't believe in destiny other than that which you decide for yourself

I don't believe there is a meaning of life other than that which you decide for yourself

I don't believe that religion and superstition should go unchallenged

I don't believe that any ethical or moral (prescriptive) statement is objectively true

Self identifies as:-

agnotic atheist

Bright

empiricist

non-cognitivist (ethics)

I believe in:

objective reality

the power of the Darwinian algorithm to produce design without Mind

I scoff at:-

religion

superstition

evidenceless beliefs

inconsistency

ages of miracles, the dreamtime, biblical times etc.

ultimate purpose

revelation as a source of objective truth

logical fallacies

Great thinkers:-

Charles Darwin

David Hume

Albert Einstein

Carl Sagan

[Henry Wiltcher]

I am:-

Henry Wiltcher, Born England 1988. Lives with parents (pays rent).

Credo:-

I am without religion, superstition or paranormal beliefs.

I believe the scientific method is the back bone of human learning and understanding.

Morals should be judged based on intent and to the degree of effect the action has.

Self identifies as:-

Atheist

Utilitarian

Secular Humanist

Vegetarian

Member of:-

Unicef - if sending them a subscription counts.

I believe in:-

The scientific method.

People's potential to do good.

I scoff at:-

Bullies

People who are willfully ignorant.

The smartest idea ever:-

The idea that physical laws stay constant.

The dumbest idea ever:-

Religion being right for reason X, Y or Z.

I debate because:-

I like to learn from other people.

I like to share my own ideas.

I like third party critical response to my views and ideas.

It's fun.

Debate should be:-

Fun.

Objective.

Subject to logical and coherent debating style.

Purposeful.

Awareness raising.

[davep]

I am:-

Dave Pearson. Born in England, 1967. Living in England. Married man with one child. More here if you're interested.

Credo:-

I don't believe in the supernatural

I don't believe my life has a purpose

I don't believe your life has a purpose

I believe that, between us, we create a purpose

Self identifies as:-

Atheist

Agnostic

Secularist

Liberal

I believe in:-

Finding things out

The smartest idea ever:-

"Show me"

The worst idea ever:-

"Trust me"

[andkon]

I am Andkon and my attitude towards your god is the same as your attitude towards Zeus.

[Markaba 2.0]

You can call me Markaba or Todd, whichever you prefer. I'll answer to either.

I believe there are two parts to reality which overlap somewhat but are not entirely contained within one another. I believe one of these is the Darwinian universe, which I call consensus reality. I believe this reality is deterministic and not the product of an intelligent creator but of a Big Bang. The other part is not physically manifest but is still supported by logic and empiricism and is thus not mystical. It is the realm of the mind (which means that I pretty much agree with the dualistic view of mind/brain). Naturally, this leads me to the assumption that we have free will (within the limitations imposed on us by consensus reality.)

I believe we evolved from non-life and progressed through a series of stages via natural selection that brought us to the point we are at now. I consider myself an agnostic, open to the idea of gods but only those which would not defy logic or whatever universal laws, if any, exist in the universe. That pretty much rules out all of the major deities, particularly those central to the Mosetic faiths (Judaism, Christianity and Islam.) I am extremely skeptical about all forms of mystical beliefs and theories, but I won't rule anything out entirely unless it is self-contradictory or illogical on it's face.

I believe the term mysticism applies to much more than even those of us who theoretically scoff at mystical ideas are willing to admit, and that we must constantly be on guard against ALL forms of mystical thinking, not just the usual suspects (ghosts, demons, ESP, auras, divinities, etc.) We humans are prone to thinking mystically about things which exist right here in consensus reality and so we're particularly vulnerable to that type of mysticism.

I believe the only meaning that exists in reality (consensus or otherwise) is what we impose on it. I believe the plumb line for morality is where we place it and that we should try our darnedest to come up with some kind of moral and ethical consensus. I believe in the Golden Rule and the Golden Mean (and probably anything with the word golden in it, because I'm drawn to shiny objects.) I believe there's life on other planets, even intelligent life, but I think we're a loooooong way from communicating with it.

I don't know if laughter is the best medicine, but I believe that if we can't laugh at ourselves or at the sheer insanity of the world we live in, then we're probably not going to make it--as individuals or as a species. I believe war is bogus but very occasionally necessary. I believe in social libertarianism (to the extent that we cause no direct harm to others) and fiscal liberalism.

I believe I'm only human . . . and all that that entails.

Oh, and I'm housebroken.

[Death's Overlord]

I am an atheist, Reasonist (Reasonism is a spin-off of Objectivism), skeptic, and anarcho-capitalist.

[philbo]

I am:-

Phil Alexander - born 1966, married with four children. Techie by trade.

Credo:-

I find the anthropomorphic gods dreamt up by the various religions to be unconvincing in the extreme: the thought that an omnipotent creator would give even the most fleeting thought to, say, people's sexual preferences is to me utterly risible.

I believe life started as some kind of cosmic accident, but once started evolution and survival pressures have turned it into the varied and wonderful panoply we see around us. It may seem improbable, but I believe that it is infinitely more probable than a creator who doesn't need an act of creation for himself.

Self identifies as:-

Atheist and agnostic (I am not dogmatically atheist - give me proof of gods and I would change my position.. thing is, I mean "proof of gods", not stories, hearsay or what someone else believes - I don't need proof that other people believe in gods). Incidentally, that "atheist" has a capital "A" 'cause it starts a sentence, not because I believe atheism should have a capital letter.

Ignostic - if God is the answer, it must have been a silly question

Liberal - with both a small "l" and a capital one. Though my former political activism has been drained from me through contact with the electorate of this country: we have an utterly dire set of politicians because the voting (and especially non-voting) public deserve no better.

Monarchist - not because I think the royal family deserve their position of privilege, but because I think the titular head of state is a distraction, and whatever you might think about the Queen, Charles or any of the others, I'd far rather have them there than someone who actually *wanted* to do the job.

Parodist - anything that can be should be satirized, lampooned and parodied.

Member of:-

Nothing, really.. never been one for joining stuff. Unless you count this and one or two other forums.

I believe in:

Not really one to say "I believe in" stuff. I believe scientific method is the best way of determining as near to "truth" as is possible to get, but that doesn't mean "I believe in Science" in the same way as another might believe in God.

I believe that nothing is sacred.

I scoff at:-

Pretty much everything at some time or another:- anything or anyone that takes itself too seriously.

People who talk about democracy as some kind of high ideal, then go on to complain about politicians

Anyone who argues that the "uniformitarian" basis for science can be ignored or assumed to be wrong for their pet theory, then goes on to try to use science to support their ideas.

The smartest idea ever:-

Too many to choose from - the rigourous testing regimen that is scientific method: the best way of telling quacks from geniuses.

The worst idea ever

Originality fails me on this one, and because I'm completely with Martin: faith as a virtue means not just believing what you want to believe in the face of any argument or disproof.. but thinking that this is a good thing.

While we think of having faith of itself being virtuous, doing bad things in the name of faith becomes not simply possible but somehow good

[LeftHook]

I'm as certain as I am of anything that

...the concepts of God, gods, and the supernatural are the production solely of human imagination.

...human imagination also explains the production of the bible and other "inspired" religious writings, probably through some combination of delusion, manipulation, confusion, frustration, and possibly insanity.

...Darwinian evolution explains the diversity of life on our planet.

...fundamentalist radical religion presents one of the greatest dangers to life on this planet at this time.

...most people who profess themselves to be Christians have very little understanding of Christianity and would not have become Christians if not for childhood indoctrination and cultural expectations.

I'm a lot less confident when it comes to

...politics, economics, history, and pretty much everything else.

But I do believe

...in love of family and friends and trying to do the right thing as best I can figure out what the right thing to do is. For Christ's sake somebody hand me a tissue.

[Jenni]

I am:-

Jenni Watson, born in the U.S. in '76, still living in the U.S. Married, self-employed, home school mom with two pre-teen children.

Credo:-
I don't believe in theism.
I don't believe in dualism.
I don't believe there is a meaning to life or the universe.
I don't believe in faith.
I don't believe that religion and superstition should go unchallenged.
I believe man just another animal.
I believe that the optimum number of religions in the world is zero.
I believe that most Tasmanian devils just need a good flea dip and a nap.
I believe the South will not "rise again", and the Civil War was the last battle of the Revolution.
I believe ending the "War on Drugs" is the only humane thing to do.


Self identifies as:-
atheist
misanthropic


I believe in:-
deliberately neglected conclusions
hedonism
utilitarianism

I scoff at:-
Botox
romanticism/irrationalism and Utopian social thought
religion/superstition
the value of diamonds
magick, miracles, the dreamtime, etc.
destiny and “ultimate” purpose
daylight savings time

The smartest idea ever:-
Birth control
Autodidacticism
Darwin's idea
germ theory

The worst ideas ever:-
dogfighting
Spam
Whole-word reading instruction
the design of the windshield of the American version of BMW's sedan(s).
half-assing it
choke chains

Really smart people whose ideas I like:-
Howard Bloom
Tamar Geller
Victor Stenger
Martin Willett

[joss]

Joss, 33

Philosophical identifiers: Atheist, anti-theist, rationalist, naturalist, materialist, utilitarian.
Political identifiers: Liberal, republican, socialist, environmentalist, semi-pacifist, pro-World-Superstate.

Credo:
The universe is pretty much what it looks like, and that's the best way of treating it. What it looks like is something completely natural, material, beautiful, but ultimately simple.

We create our own meaning of life, and the guiding principles that lead to the most enriched lives tend to be the ones which balance your individual short-term desires and goals with policies that benefit everyone as a whole over the long term.

There's nothing complicated about getting on in a blind and purposeless universe. Society is just people trying to achieve their personal goals in the presence of other people. The wider our interaction, the larger society needs to become to manage things.

Consciousness is nothing remarkable. Consciousness is just what the mechanisms of the machine (our brain) 'feel' like when you are the machine. All animals have consciousness, of differing levels of complexity.

The scientific method is the only way of establishing truth about objective reality. In fact, the only meaningful definition of reality is that which is perceived by all observers in the same way. Our model of reality may not actually be 'reality', but the distinction is meaningless if the model works.

Some stupid ideas:
Dualism
Philosophical Zombies
Dinosaurs on the Ark
Enlightened self-interest as a political ideology
Trickle-down economics
Being embarrassed to say you're an atheist
Agnosticism as an alternative to atheism
Absolute morality
Non-renewable energy (like, way to doom the future, dudes!)

Some stupid people:
People who make jokes at other people's expense
People who make jokes at other people's expense, and don't realise that it's at their expense
Patronising people
People who only want to win, and don't care whether they learn something
Scientologists (well, either evil or stupid)

Some clever ideas:
Single Transferable Vote a.k.a. Instant Run-off Voting
Evolution by natural selection
Fermentation

...probably there'll be more...

[keithprosser2]

Keith Prosser - atheist.



Tempted as I am to leave it at that, a little clarification can be added:

I don't believe there are no gods - I know there aren't.
Apart from that, I'm not sure I know anything(except the undoubted desirablility of teleporting, that is!).

[Fritzwm]

I am: Harry Meyer 60 born in the USA, still here, yea! Am I the oldest one here?

Credo: I do not believe in God or Gods and all the spin-offs from religion, spiritualism and the like.

I agree with Joss, The scientific method is the only way of establishing truth about objective reality.

I am a member of the ACLU

Worst ideas ever:

You are born a dirty sinner

Just wait ‘till your father gets home!

[G. Whiz]

Female, born and educated in the United States. Married; doing freelance work part-time. Caution about posting personal information on the Web keeps me from saying much about myself.

I was raised without a religion and haven't acquired one. Surveys find that religious people are happier than others. Happy is good, but I can't force myself to adopt the beliefs that religions require of members.

[graybags]

I am:- Graham Phipps. Born Manchester, England 1968. Married with two children.

Credo:-

I don't believe in God (but if there is one, I'd like to think that we are just a biology exam by some super beings, and at best God got a C-).

I do believe that there is some "essence" that carries on after we die (but don't see why a mayfly wouldn't have such a thing - trouble is we can't ask the other mayflies etc).

I do believe that we are animals with a higher degree of self-awaeness.

I don't believe in fate or destiny.

I don't believe that the human species is naturally monogamous, but refuse to test this theory for the obvious expense / hassle / grief / disease* this will cause (*delete any or none, as appropirate).
I scoff at:-
Approximately 8am, 12pm and 6pm, but am open to elevenses, afternoon snacks and supper.

[StephenAI]

I am:-

StephenAI (AI can stand for both artificial intelligence and ad infinitum - my old name here which refers to my hope that the universe is after all infinite and eternal. I was born and currently live in Toronto, Canada. Never married, no children.

Credo:-

I don't believe in a traditional, biblical, theistic Creator/God.
I don't believe in Theistic Creationism, however I do believe Panspermia, Alien Colonization/Transplantation, and/or Creation of Life by Evolved Higher Intelligences (or A.I.'s) are possible/plausible.

I don't believe in the existence of anything that is not and can not ever be detectable or measurable.

I don't believe in a human soul, disembodied spirits, reincarnation, the afterlife, as commonly thought of by tradition, superstition, supernaturalism, theism, or folklore.

I don't believe in fate or destiny, unless I truely haven't got the freedom to determine my own choices/decisions in life that I believe I do, then whether I believe or not, I don't.

I am a strict determinist/materialist. However, I believe that our understanding of these concepts is insufficient and lacking.
I don't believe there is a meaning or purpose to life except that which you make for yourself and others.

I don't believe capitalism has contributed positively or constructively overall toward human morale and accomplishment. I believe it will one day be determined to have caused more harm than good.

I don't believe in an absolute, objective morality. I do believe however morality can evolve and progress.

Self identifies as:-

Atheist/Agnostic/Skeptic
Secular Humanist, Liberal (with some conservativism)
Transhumanist
Anti-Nationalist, Anti-Traditionalist
Pro-Choice

I believe in:

The Singularity & The Multiverse
Science, Progress, Knowledge, Ethics
The Power of Memes
Artificial Intelligence, FTL Space Travel
Extraterrestrial Life & Intelligence
Supressed/Repressed Memory
Love, Compassion, and Hope

I scoff at:-

Religion, Supernaturalism, Superstition, Miracles
Fate and Destiny
History used to problem solve
Politics for politics sake
Nationalism & Unrestrained, Freemarket Capitalism
Relativism in Social Policy
Anti-Abortionists
Luddites, Anti-Science, Anti-Technologists, Anti-Rationalists
Salesmen, Corporate Culture, The Legal Profession

The smartest ideas ever:-

Darwin's Dangerous Idea
Emergence from Complexity/Order from Chaos

EDIT: removed belief in teleportation for now. Also reworded some passages for clarity.

[freedave]

Freedave's Credo:
Don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you.
Screw me once and I'll screw you twice.
Most folks are smart about a few things, hell I could learn a lot by following a garbageman around for a day or two. The least of of us are worthy of respect.
Ptolemy knew that the the Earth wasn't the center of the universe, he figured that out a couple of millenia ago. If you think you are the center of the universe you are fighting twenty centuries of informed thought.

[Tranquility]

In quiet moments I sometimes can get lost in wonder and curiosity about our world. It is mysterious, magical really; without explanation. For myself it is perhaps its most endearing quality.

If I have a credo it would be: That we have been always will be. It provides for me a sense of immortality in a seemingly inevitible mortality.

We are in a world without an intended future, yet I wonder if the nature of our future is inevitible or can we make it whatever we want. Is it at least possible given enough time and resource?

It is in consideration of our well being that we find what it is that we ought and ought not do. I think it is important for us to recognize that those who speak of right and wrong are wrong.

[Blackyeoman]

I am:-

James Griffin, English

Credo:-
I don't really believe in anything I cant see, feel or attach too thinks I can see or feel. Or see on TV... Because of this the only thing I base morals on are happiness/sadness/pain/ect.

Nothing paranormal, no gods or anything "odd", With the exception of aliens, its unlikely that in the whole universe there is no other life.

There are a such a ridiculous amount of unlikely gods or spirits, I can't believe in all of them, so I will believe in none.

Self identifies as:-

Atheist

Possibly utilitarian

I am sure there are more words for what I am, but I am yet to find them, or even, try.

I believe in-
Happiness, fun, anything that causes them, whether I believe in it or not.

I scoff at:-

Too much

Religion

What I scoff at and think the world is better without:

Valuing life

Love/sexual attraction

Adverts

Supermarkets

Vanity

Finally-
Having you own children when you could adopt is selfish.

Base all choices on morality.

Just because something is natural doesn't make it right.

Many people have many vices, some people just can't help it, they are who they are. (But if you can change that for the better...).

Why does every modern religion assume that their god would be all-loving? Seems like a jerk to me.

Life is no more than electric signals, death: the lack of.

You only have one life, "waste" it all you want.

Racism is no worse than any other sort of negative action. "Oh my god this guy bashing my head in with the lead pipe might be doing it because of my country of origin!" who cares? Your still having your head bashed in.

I make many jokes, almost all of which are for my own pleasure.

Morality is all that matters, if something is right, it should be done, even if everyone tries to stop it.

EDIT: It sounds like I am ordering people, I am just stating my personal rules.

EDIT2: Removed irrelevant content and bad joke.

[NoCoPilot]

I am:
Robert, born 1954, resident of Seattle.

I believe:
All men are created equal (and women too), and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

(By the way, the creator of all men and women is evolution, not god.)

I believe the world operates on a pragmatic level, that all things are explainable if you have enough knowledge. I do not believe anything is fundamentally un-understandable -- it's just a frontier that is always expanding. Therefore, no gods, superstitions, luck or fate.

I believe people are basically good and decent, but all sorts of twisted shit can be imposed on them before the age of reason and they grow up hating Jews or Blacks or Democrats or Palestinians because of this brainwashing.

I believe sex is normal and healthy and Victorianism is the worst gift England ever gave us. Next to Benny Hill of course.

I believe my generation has seriously fucked up our obligation to leave a better world for our children. The next generation is the first in recorded history to start out poorer, weaker, further in debt and with more hatred & tension in the world than ever before. If 9/11 had happened before my daughter was born, I don't think I'd have reproduced.

[Nomad]

I am Steve Nomad, an individual conscious entity,
male human animal born in Bandung,1946.

I believe:
All humans have more in common than we have differences

.We have yet to create a god worthy of the title 'God'.

That the only 'magic' that exists, exists in our mind's eye, in dreams, concepts, creativities and self expressions.

That 'cruelty' is the biggest sin and 'greed' comes next.

Foresight is better than hindsight and either one beats the hell out of apathy.

Any kid is everyone's kid.

Self interest is the great motivator.

We share interests, with non humans even.

I believe that our real universe is an absolutely marvellous place for humans and other life. All mod cons and lots of room.

I lament:
The desires of so many to take solace in mumbo jumbo, gobbly gook and garbage.

The glorification of human death in cause of some agenda.

The existence of an arms industry.

Political correctness passing common sense as an MO.

Brickbats and the airlock for:
The current Pope, Mugabi and Bill Gates.

Bouquets and The Key to Everywhere for:
Brin, Page, Shuttleworth, Electronic Freedom Foundation, Rutan, Shakira, Craig Newmark

Gone but not forgotten:
Isaac Asimov, Heinlein, van Vogt, , Monty python, Gorbachev, Nina Simone, Kim Novak

My favourite net clips include:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y99tXNxV5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0sCs8jI4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpHPQCnHHl4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ9sJVJMiYM

[fredflintstone]

I have tried to write this post a number of times, it always got too technical and bogged down in details. So, with the inspiration of alcohol:

I don't believe that any of the modern religions have the story straight, except the sikh's (as far as my search has taken me) on a fundamental level although they lose it in translation.

Although

I don't quite buy the atheist perspective either for one simple reason:

That is NOT what inspires people.

If anyone wonders why? That is exactly the question: why?

[Clancy]

I believe that the universe is simply to large, too ancient. to complex and too bizarre to have been created by any being, let alone a god which would have had to be created in the first place.

I therefore do not believe in gods, goddesses, deites of any kind, demons, angels, ghosts or fairies at the bottom of my garden.

I do believe that human experience is subjective, and the mind is a very complex organism and that people can convince themselves of virtually anything and actually believe that it as true, with all evidence tot he contrary staring them in the face.

However I also believe that reality is reality whichever way you look at it.

You just need the right tools with which to look at it.

Im an atheist, a humanist and a rational socialist...

I'm also an optimist, in taht I reckon that eventually human kind will figure out a way to live with the least pain and the most happiness...so I guess that makes me a utilitarian as well.