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angelobrazil
Mass Debater

Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 194

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject:

Jenni wrote:

angelobrazil wrote:

The Absurdity of Life Without God

http://www.bethinking.org/resources/the-absurdity-of-life-without-god.htm

God doesn’t force himself upon us. He has given evidence of Himself which is sufficiently clear for those with an open mind and an open heart, but sufficiently vague so as to not to compel those who hearts are closed. The great French mathematical genius Blaise Pascal, who came to know God through Jesus Christ at the age of 31, put it this way:

Willing to appear openly to those who seek him with all their heart, and to be hidden from those who flee from him with all their heart, God so regulates the knowledge of himself that he has given indications of himself which are visible to those who seek him and not to those who do not seek him. There is enough light for those to see who only desire to see, and enough obscurity for those who have a contrary disposition.

Your god is an absolute shit. He hates anything decent and loving and embraces nihilism and death and the killing of women and children. You have proven yourself a lousy opponent; even a victory over you is no more gratifying than taking a lolly from a small child. I think you and your god go perfectly together. Neither of you cares about honesty nor integrity. If the only reason you even believe and pray and do the things you do is to keep from going to hell just in case, which is what Pascal's wager means, you are truly the childish, selfish, loathsome creature I suspected. When you meet your god, tell him he better watch it, there's this chick named Jenni who wants his cowardly head on a platter.

Philippians 2
As a result God exalted him
and gave him the name
that is above every name,
2:10 so that at the name of Jesus
Nietzschean Superwoman knees will bow
2:11 and her tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord
to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus Christ is Lord of the universe. Therefore "every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (Phil. 2:11). To confess (Gk., exomolog[ma]etai) means "to acknowledge," "affirm," or "agree." Everyone--damned demons, damned men, holy angels, glorified saints--will acknowledge He is Lord. By "every tongue" Paul did not mean every physical tongue in every mouth, but every language (Gk., gl[ma]ossa). Another way to express the idea is that all rational beings will acknowledge His lordship.

mortato
Experienced Mass Debater

Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 2221

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject:

angelobrazil wrote:

Jesus Christ is Lord of the universe. Therefore "every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (Phil. 2:11). To confess (Gk., exomolog[ma]etai) means "to acknowledge," "affirm," or "agree." Everyone--damned demons, damned men, holy angels, glorified saints--will acknowledge He is Lord. By "every tongue" Paul did not mean every physical tongue in every mouth, but every language (Gk., gl[ma]ossa). Another way to express the idea is that all rational beings will acknowledge His lordship.

Yup, heard it all before. Your god is bigger than my god and he will force everyone to agree with your personal prejudices.

mortato
Experienced Mass Debater

Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 2221

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Question for Theists.

angelobrazil wrote:

As an unembodied mind, God is a remarkably simple entity. As a non-physical entity, a mind is not composed of parts, and its salient properties, like self-consciousness, rationality, and volition, are essential to it. In contrast to the contingent and variegated universe with all its inexplicable quantities and constants, a divine mind is startlingly simple. Certainly such a mind may have complex ideas—it may be thinking, for example, of the infinitesimal calculus—, but the mind itself is a remarkably simple entity. Dawkins has evidently confused a mind's ideas, which may, indeed, be complex, with a mind itself, which is an incredibly simple entity. Therefore, postulating a divine mind behind the universe most definitely does represent an advance in simplicity, for whatever that is worth.

Please explain the above in your own words. Why do you draw the conclusion that a divine mind is startlingly simple?

angelobrazil
Mass Debater

Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 194

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Question for Theists.

mortato wrote:

angelobrazil wrote:

Please explain the above in your own words. Why do you draw the conclusion that a divine mind is startlingly simple?

i don't see any reason to explain the same thing in own, aka different words. I think it can be understood perfectly by its own.

Markaba 2.0
Bite my shiny pedo ass

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 7030
Location: The Goldilocks Zone

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:12 am Post subject:

angelobrazil wrote:

ok. unless, you apologize, no further reading, and dialog , is in place with you. I don't accept name calling. You should have learned that.

Awwww, I offended you. I'm sorry about that, then. Douchebag.

mortato
Experienced Mass Debater

Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 2221

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Question for Theists.

angelobrazil wrote:

mortato wrote:

angelobrazil wrote:

Please explain the above in your own words. Why do you draw the conclusion that a divine mind is startlingly simple?

i don't see any reason to explain the same thing in own, aka different words. I think it can be understood perfectly by its own.

All I see is a statement that a divine mind is simple. Can you explain or even highlight any evidence or reasoning behind this statement?

Clancy
Immoderate ex-goddess

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 8221
Location: Cape Barren Island

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:11 am Post subject:

[url=Jesus Christ is Lord of the universe. Therefore "every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (Phil. 2:11). To confess (Gk., exomolog[ma]etai) means "to acknowledge," "affirm," or "agree." Everyone--damned demons, damned men, holy angels, glorified saints--will acknowledge He is Lord. By "every tongue" Paul did not mean every physical tongue in every mouth, but every language (Gk., gl[ma]ossa). Another way to express the idea is that all rational beings will acknowledge His lordship.[/url] No he isnt, and no they wont and never will they. So NAH!

angelobrazil
Mass Debater

Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 194

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:51 am Post subject:

Clancy wrote:

[url=Jesus Christ is Lord of the universe. Therefore "every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (Phil. 2:11). To confess (Gk., exomolog[ma]etai) means "to acknowledge," "affirm," or "agree." Everyone--damned demons, damned men, holy angels, glorified saints--will acknowledge He is Lord. By "every tongue" Paul did not mean every physical tongue in every mouth, but every language (Gk., gl[ma]ossa). Another way to express the idea is that all rational beings will acknowledge His lordship.[/url]

No he isnt, and no they wont and never will they.

So NAH!

One day you will see and know...... unfortunately, it could be too late then......

angelobrazil
Mass Debater

Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 194

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Question for Theists.

mortato wrote:

All I see is a statement that a divine mind is simple. Can you explain or even highlight any evidence or reasoning behind this statement?

As an unembodied mind, God is a remarkably simple entity. As a non-physical entity, a mind is not composed of parts

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-simplicity/

God is radically unlike creatures in that he is devoid of any complexity or composition, whether physical or metaphysical. Besides lacking spatial and temporal parts, God is free of matter/form composition, potency/act composition, and existence/essence composition.

flammifer
Goatmaster

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 2218
Location: Paris

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:27 am Post subject:

I'm still not seeing any evidence or reasoning there.

andkon
It's not a VOW of chastity...

Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 21666
Location: Turn around

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Question for Theists.

angelobrazil wrote:

God is radically unlike creatures in that he is devoid of any complexity or composition, whether physical or metaphysical. Besides lacking spatial and temporal parts, God is free of matter/form composition, potency/act composition, and existence/essence composition.

Quote of the Week!

I don't think you'll find a single atheist who disagrees with that whole paragraph. God is devoid of any composition. He shares this characteristic with other imaginary non-beings that don't exist either. (Anyone else remember AslanLion making the same "argument"?)

So how does one distinguish between those devoid of existence and those devoid of composition? Draw us a flowchart or make a list.

flammifer
Goatmaster

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 2218
Location: Paris

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Question for Theists.

Indeed:

angelobrazil wrote:

Besides lacking spatial and temporal parts, God is free of [...] existence[...].

Can't say I disagree!

Lisa 1
Experienced Mass Debater

Joined: 11 May 2009
Posts: 1991
Location: Michigan

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Question for Theists.

angelobrazil wrote:

God is radically unlike creatures...

So, I am not created in God's image...
and when we saw Jesus, we did not see the Father as well?
Why did the bible lie?

Beau Tochs
Massive Member

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 3687
Location: Virginia US

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Question for Theists.

Lisa 1 wrote:

angelobrazil wrote:

God is radically unlike creatures...

So, I am not created in God's image...
and when we saw Jesus, we did not see the Father as well?
Why did the bible lie?

When theists quote the Bible, they are right. When atheists quote the Bible, they are wrong.

StephenAI
Traces or residue of nut may be present

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3640
Location: North of 42

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:53 pm Post subject:

Angelo, how do you know all this stuff and how can you be so sure you are correct? How does your bible hold more weight than scientific research and evidence?

Markaba 2.0
Bite my shiny pedo ass

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 7030
Location: The Goldilocks Zone

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject:

AB should have his account deleted. It is clear now that he is just baiting us and probably deriving great pleasure from it. In fact, I'm convinced now that AB is not actually a Christian at all but just some random nut who is toying with us.

Martin Willett
Actually I DO
own this place

Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 15495
Location: England

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject:

Angelo can you explain how DNA could have different characteristics from those it does have? If you can't your challenge is meaningless.

Jenni
Nietzschean Superwoman

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 3975
Location: Mississippi

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject:

angelobrazil wrote:

Clancy wrote:

One day you will see and know...... unfortunately, it could be too late then......

No. We won't.
See that's the difference between truly thinking about and understanding what you think and feel and just going along with religion just in case as you seem to advocate with Pascal's wager. We will never be sorry because we truly thought out what is right to us. We could all stand before your god tomorrow and be proud of who we are and what we think. We stand, challenged, every day for what we think is right. Atheists are the minority- we always have been. It's easy to do what you do. You not only copy paste your responses here, you copy paste your very morality. You follow thousand year old books and wager- like life is a bet- that you are on the right side and will be saved from the fires of a hell you simply accept. We, on the other hand, question it all. We fight against the tide of society to learn and grow and develop our own moral sense of what we should be doing with ourselves and our lives. We struggle with not having answers laid out and not knowing some of the answers to our deepest questions. We struggle with reality as adults while people like you stay stifled in a childlike state never growing up enough to come to terms with the real world. Everyday, just by our very nature, we live a fuller life than you. We enjoy the world in all it's scientific mystery and emotional nuances. We take that responsibility of going against the tide when necessary and saying what is true and what is not and we are rewarded for it with knowledge and understanding that accomplishes things in the world. We would never change that. I don't know one single atheist here (agnostics too) who would do something we didn't think was right to be in good graces with your god. Don't you see, we have already faced the one demon you are unable to. We faced reality.

Beau Tochs
Massive Member

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 3687
Location: Virginia US

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject:

angelobrazil wrote:

One day you will see and know...... unfortunately, it could be too late then......

Yeah, sure . . . "one day".

When?

angelobrazil
Mass Debater

Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 194

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject:

StephenAI wrote:

Angelo, how do you know all this stuff and how can you be so sure you are correct? How does your bible hold more weight than scientific research and evidence?

I think the bible is perfectly in accordance with science.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencebible.html

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/the-bible-faith-and-science-f7/links-to-sites-that-show-the-bible-is-scientifically-accurate-t15.htm

angelobrazil
Mass Debater

Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 194

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject:

Markaba 2.0 wrote:

AB should have his account deleted. It is clear now that he is just baiting us and probably deriving great pleasure from it. In fact, I'm convinced now that AB is not actually a Christian at all but just some random nut who is toying with us.

In fact, i am toying with atheists, and having my fun, since it is today so easy to debunk atheism.
There was never a time, where it was so easy, to expose its complete irrationality.

angelobrazil
Mass Debater

Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 194

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject:

Martin Willett wrote:

Angelo can you explain how DNA could have different characteristics from those it does have? If you can't your challenge is meaningless.

You might formulate your question differently, since it is not clear to me.

Beau Tochs
Massive Member

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 3687
Location: Virginia US

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:20 pm Post subject:

angelobrazil wrote:

In fact, i am toying with atheists, and having my fun, since it is today so easy to debunk atheism.
There was never a time, where it was so easy, to expose its complete irrationality.

When are you going to start exposing atheism's "complete irrationality"? All you've done so far is post a lot of silly nonsense from other websites.

angelobrazil
Mass Debater

Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 194

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject:

Jenni wrote:

No. We won't. .

how do you know ? how can you be so sure about it ?

Quote:

See that's the difference between truly thinking about and understanding what you think and feel and just going along with religion just in case as you seem to advocate with Pascal's wager. We will never be sorry because we truly thought out what is right to us. We could all stand before your god tomorrow and be proud of who we are and what we think.

I dont think so. There will be no more regret, than to have missed what life is all about. And your sins will be all exposed, and you will feel sorry about them. You will percieve the difference between your sinful nature, and the holyness of God. That will be exactly what will not make you want to live with God. You will not support his holyness.

Quote:

We stand, challenged, every day for what we think is right.

I see no reason to think atheism is right. The non-believe in Jesus Christ is actually what will condemn people to hell.

Quote:

Atheists are the minority- we always have been. It's easy to do what you do.

that is what you think. Its not easy to live a life according to God's will. It is a challenge every day, to crucify its own carnal inclinations, and to do, what is right, what is Gods will. Its not easy to be a true christian. There was never a time in history, where true christians where more persecuted all over the world, than today. Only in North Korea, there are 40 thousand christians in concentration camps and prisons, and tortured, for the only reason of being Christians. Every year, 160 thousand christians are killed , only because they confess Jesus Christ as their lord and savior.

Quote:

You not only copy paste your responses here, you copy paste your very morality.

Who are you to judge my morality ? You dont know me, you dont know my life. And you have no right, even if you would know my life, to judge me.

Quote:

You follow thousand year old books and wager- like life is a bet- that you are on the right side and will be saved from the fires of a hell you simply accept. We, on the other hand, question it all. We fight against the tide of society to learn and grow and develop our own moral sense of what we should be doing with ourselves and our lives.

There is no objective morality for whom is a atheist. Theoretically, you can rape a small child, and moreally speaking, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Its like eating a ice cream. If God does not exist, no objective moral values exist.

Quote:

We struggle with not having answers laid out and not knowing some of the answers to our deepest questions.

That is, because atheism is rationally speaking, bankrupt. Nothing what we know through science, justifies atheism.

Quote:

We struggle with reality as adults while people like you stay stifled in a childlike state never growing up enough to come to terms with the real world.

BS.

You should know better, after reading this thread. I have presented rational and reasoable arguments, why theism is far superior to atheism in every term, and why it makes completely sense to believe in God.

Quote:

Everyday, just by our very nature, we live a fuller life than you.

No, you don't. You have no hope at all. One day you will die, and that is all you can expect from your future. Whatever you will have done here on earth, will be completely meaningless, since all what exists, tomorrow will not exist anymore. But we, Christians, we have hope of eternal life, and to be together with our beloved God, creator of the heavens and the earth, knowing, that all we do here on earth, specially the good deeds, will be rewarded. We have hope of a brilliant future.

Craig puts it that way :

http://www.bethinking.org/resources/the-absurdity-of-life-without-god.htm

If God does not exist, then both man and the universe are inevitably doomed to death. Man, like all biological organisms, must die. With no hope of immortality, man’s life leads only to the grave. His life is but a spark in the infinite blackness, a spark that appears, flickers, and dies forever. Compared to the infinite stretch of time, the span of man’s life is but an infinitesimal moment; and yet this is all the life he will ever know. Therefore, everyone must come face to face with what theologian Paul Tillich has called “the threat of non-being.” For though I know now that I exist, that I am alive, I also know that someday I will no longer exist, that I will no longer be, that I will die. This thought is staggering and threatening: to think that the person I call “myself” will cease to exist, that I will be no more!

The absurdity of life without God and Immortality

If there is no God, then man and the universe are doomed. Like prisoners condemned to death, we await our unavoidable execution. There is no God, and there is no immortality. And what is the consequence of this? It means that life itself is absurd. It means that the life we have is without ultimate significance, value, or purpose.

Quote:

We faced reality.

I bet you do. Since i believe, God is real, you bet you will face him one day , too.
Wheter as enemy , or as friend, but you can bet, you will meet him one day.
If it is as enemey, it will be too late. Your chance is today and now. Tomorrow it could be too late.

Beau Tochs
Massive Member

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 3687
Location: Virginia US

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject:

angelobrazil wrote:

I bet you do. Since i believe, God is real, you bet you will face him one day , too. Wheter as enemy , or as friend, but you can bet, you will meet him one day.
If it is as enemey, it will be too late. Your chance is today and now. Tomorrow it could be too late.

You're goofy. No rational person believes that silly, made-up horseshit. No logical, thinking person is scared by these infantile threats of yours. Fuck off - go scare some little kids and old ladies with that crap.

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