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Is Gabby a good witness for catholicism?
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Christianity from Gabby's perspective makes me:

Want to sign up to be a priest/nun

[ 1 ]

Want to go to a confessional tomorrow

[ 0 ]

Feel neutral about catholicism

[ 2 ]

Decide Catholicism is not for me

[ 2 ]

Dislike Catholicism intensely

45%

[ 14 ]

Want to throttle the next catholic I meet

38%

[ 12 ]

Total Votes : 31

Author

Message

joss
Experienced Mass Debater

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 2774
Location: Oxford, UK

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:43 am Post subject:

I'm curious. If Gabby didn't come here to persuade people, why did she come here? If this poll doesn't indicate failure, there must be some other purpose. Do you get time off in purgatory just for trying?

andkon
It's not a VOW of chastity...

Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 21681
Location: Turn around

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:13 am Post subject:

joss wrote:

I'm curious. If Gabby didn't come here to persuade people, why did she come here? If this poll doesn't indicate failure, there must be some other purpose. Do you get time off in purgatory just for trying?

She previously lied to us that she wasn't here for evangelism, but she forgot to act accordingly.

Crowley
Freudian Slip

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 1285

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:15 am Post subject:

gone Last edited by Crowley on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:53 pm; edited 2 times in total

tknorriss
Experienced Mass Debater

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 1899
Location: Christchurch New Zealand

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:22 am Post subject:

I am starting to suspect rather strongly that Gabriel is a spoof sent to annoy everyone at DU. Perhaps even from a competing atheist forum, or from some sad person who is chortling away at every post they put through. The reason I think this is that her/its behaviour is so relentless despite all the advice etc. I mean, why would a genuine catholic who is SO righteous engage in behaviour that is having such a negative impact on the organisation she/it so profusely adores? Also, why would a genuine person, even an idiotic one continue to cop all the abuse for so long, just like water of a ducks back. That is one of the reasons I have concluded that she/it should be banned. I think we all have better things to do with our time than to be treated like fools by someone who is just playing us all along.

Crowley
Freudian Slip

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 1285

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:40 am Post subject:

gone. Last edited by Crowley on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:52 pm; edited 2 times in total

davep
Not the resident astrologer

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 8533
Location: South Lincolnshire, England

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:43 am Post subject:

Crowley wrote:

taking on you heavy weight guys and holding her own..

Does making stuff up, posting the same thing over and over again, paying no attention to anything anyone says and evangelising really constitute "holding her own"?

Last edited by davep on Thu May 18, 2006 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

Milo
Mass Debater

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 298
Location: Oregon

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:44 am Post subject:

Woman? What gave you that idea Crowley?

tknorriss
Experienced Mass Debater

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 1899
Location: Christchurch New Zealand

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:50 am Post subject:

Crowley wrote:

It might even be you Tony?

I hope you're joking!!

Crowley wrote:

Not a very christian attitude methinks..

Well, I have tried really hard to help Gabby. I think there comes a time when if someone just refuses to listen, refuses to use the forum as it is intended, and is most likely spoofing us all anyway, that practicallity should rule. I'm all for tolerance. I actually posted earlier today that we should give Gabby another chance to take on board our advice. Then, despite the threat of annihilation, she came on and posted exactly the sort of drivel she is facing the axe for. What can I say?

Crowley wrote:

However should she be for real and I am not sure that she is, then she certainly has some balls, coming onto an atheists' forum, taking on you heavy weight guys and holding her own..
For this and for being a woman, (there are too few of us on here) I do not think she should be banned.

You've got the patience of Job I must admit. I'm impressed.

Crowley
Freudian Slip

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 1285

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:52 am Post subject:

gone Last edited by Crowley on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

Milo
Mass Debater

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 298
Location: Oregon

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:56 am Post subject:

Crowley wrote:

I did say I am not sure if she/he is for real Milo.

So then why is half your justification for not kicking him/her/them because you think he's/she's/they're female?

Crowley
Freudian Slip

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 1285

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:58 am Post subject:

gone Last edited by Crowley on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

Crowley
Freudian Slip

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 1285

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject:

gone Last edited by Crowley on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

davep
Not the resident astrologer

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 8533
Location: South Lincolnshire, England

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject:

Crowley wrote:

Quote:

"holding her one"?

Which one is she holding Dave?

Sorry, typo -- should have been "holding her own".

Crowley wrote:

She does not back down Dave, no matter what is thrown at her.

There's "holding your own" and then there's dogged ignorance and total refusal to acquire any sort of clue or engage in debate in a genuine and sincere way. Was Gabby "holding her own", was she being a fine example of "woman standing up for themselves" when, for example, we were trying to demonstrate that the claim about sunlight was a load of old tosh? Is holding on to ignorance in the face of facts really a good example of "women standing up for themselves"? I don't think so.

Crowley wrote:

Maybe, because I am a woman, and I promise you I am, I like to see women standing up for themselves in spite of everything.

Why make this a battle of the sexes (especially given that we don't know anything about Gabby)?

andkon
It's not a VOW of chastity...

Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 21681
Location: Turn around

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject:

tknorriss wrote:

I mean, why would a genuine catholic who is SO righteous engage in behaviour that is having such a negative impact on the organisation she/it so profusely adores? Also, why would a genuine person, even an idiotic one continue to cop all the abuse for so long, just like water of a ducks back.

It took how many years for Galileo to get a lame apology from the Pope? This wouldn't be the first shooting-in-the-foot moment for Catholics.

Crowley
Freudian Slip

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 1285

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject:

gone Last edited by Crowley on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

davep
Not the resident astrologer

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 8533
Location: South Lincolnshire, England

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject:

Crowley wrote:

Dave, as a woman on this forum it can be quite a learning curve to be amongst such 'heavy weight' guys.. We all stand our corners in different ways. It doesn't make us bad people.

Concerning the "heavy weights" on here: is it their arguments that are heavy weight, or your perception of them based on their sex?

Personally I've learnt over the years how to debate the "heavy weights" (not just on here, in life in general too) and the approach that works best for me is "try not to say anything stupid and be sure of your facts before you make bold claims". As I'm sure you're aware and have found yourself, it's amazing what you can learn when you check your assumptions. Gabby seems to be one of those people who has no desire to examine their assumptions and I don't think that his/her sex (correct me if I'm wrong but Gabby's always avoided that question and all assumptions about sex stem from the first avatar used -- and even then Gabby didn't seem to want to confirm or deny if that was a real picture) has anything to do with that.

Crowley wrote:

Quote:

Why make this a battle of the sexes (especially given that we don't know anything about Gabby)?

I am sorry if it appears this way.. Maybe I am feeling outnumbered too.

I'm seriously fascinated by this. What does sex have to do with the weight of an argument that someone makes?

Crowley wrote:

At the moment you are being 'gentle' with me

I'm being what now? Sorry, I don't understand this, you'll have to explain this one to me.

Crowley wrote:

but maybe I can emphasise with how Gaby must feel when you guys bring on the canons..

Like when you debated some of the more negative effects of the Catholic Church with her a few weeks back? Does the fact that you used stronger language and a more hostile tone than I generally would on here mean I should see you as a bloke, at least for the term of that argument? Or could it be that the ability to wield a "canon" in an argument has nothing to do with what our sex is?

Disflippant
I come here
to get corrected

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 828
Location: South Africa

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject:

Quote:

The reason I think this is that her/its behaviour is so relentless despite all the advice etc. I mean, why would a genuine catholic who is SO righteous engage in behaviour that is having such a negative impact on the organisation she/it so profusely adores? Also, why would a genuine person, even an idiotic one continue to cop all the abuse for so long, just like water of a ducks back.

She's having an internal battle regarding her beliefs, and needs to reinforce them by evangelising them to the rest of humanity. She needs certainty in her beliefs and the weekly indoctrination sessions aren't enough for her.

Crowley
Freudian Slip

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 1285

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject:

gone Last edited by Crowley on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

Crowley
Freudian Slip

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 1285

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject:

gone Last edited by Crowley on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

davep
Not the resident astrologer

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 8533
Location: South Lincolnshire, England

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject:

Crowley wrote:

Quote:

I'm being what now? Sorry, I don't understand this, you'll have to explain this one to me

Ok, nobody is calling me a cunt or a whore etc etc etc... (as yet anyway)

Call it a bad habit of mine but I tend not to do that anyway.

Crowley wrote:

Quote:

Like when you debated some of the more negative effects of the Catholic Church with her a few weeks back?

Guess you got me cold on this one.. Yes I lost it, she hooked my child..But if a woman slaps a woman, she will probably end up with a mark on her face.. If a guy slaps a woman, she could well end up in hospital..

You're drawing a parallel between debate (the matching of knowledge) and a punch-up (the matching of physical strength)?

Gabriel
Guest

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject:

Dear wolverine, you said:

Quote:

I am catholic, too. But I never heard you say anything about what I believe. How can that be? I believe in nothing you say, I don't believe in god, nor that Jesus was his son. Yet I am catholic.

Well, I would say that you are a fallen away Catholic. Not Catholic. This is like saying "I don't believe Christ existed but I'm a Christian", or "I am a theist but I am also an atheist". This is silly. Make up your mind what you believe and embrace it if that's what you sincerely think is true.

Quote:

So if you tell people what catholics believe, please bear in mind that this catholic does not believe in god.

lol! Well, guess what? You're an atheist! Wink

The pope gives you permission to leve the Catholic Church if you don't want to belong to it. But to be a faithful Catholic, one must accept what the Church teaches and abide by the rules. If not, such a person is not being a good Catholic. An atheist would not be a very good atheist if he went around telling everyone he believed in God.. ;)

Quote:

You have no idea about what catholics believe. You only know some of what they ought to believe.

Nonsense. Maybe it would be less confusing for you--and everyone concerned--to say "I am an atheist", instead of "I am a Catholic but I don't believe in God". The former makes sense, the latter sounds rather silly, and makes you look like someone who doesn't know what to believe. But in case you want to return to the Catholic Church some day, and if you want to know what Catholicism teaches, acquaint yourself with the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Dear all,
I see that there are a multitude of questions from many people again, that I cannot answer right away. Please bear with me. I think I will be spending less time tackling so many questions all at once. But I have to ask anyone who is weak in their atheism, psychologically fragile or just waiting around to be offended by an opposing opinion, to skip my posts and refrain from asking me questions. If you don't want to hear a frank and truthful answer from the Catholic perspective, then find happiness in skipping my posts. It's easy! Life is to short and precious to get angry over what someone says in a debate forum. But the good news is that there are other theists of this board such as tknorris, who has a wonderful method of answering your questions in a generic way where he avoids telling you what he really believes in order that you may not be offended, and so your opinion of him remains high. Just don't ask him what he really believes, apparently it's top secret! ;)

Gab

Crowley
Freudian Slip

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 1285

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject:

gone Last edited by Crowley on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

Qaliber
Experienced Mass Debater

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 505
Location: Memphis, TN

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject:

Gabriel wrote:

Nonsense. I don't go around telling andkon or any other person how to post. And neither do I hear you telling him or other people how to post either.

Some of andkon's antics are rather silly and base, yet I don't hear you or tknorris furling your eyebrows in disapproval and giving him advice. This whole thing is silly.

I believe you need to take some time to verify your facts before you attempt to state my approval of someone else. If you would have taken the time to view my post history before you spoke about it then you would have found that I have contended with andkon over the method he chooses to employ in some of his posts. The difference is that andkon makes very intelligent points from which I can learn a great deal, and he is sometimes willing to do so without all of the incessant sarcasm and name calling. Whereas you are never willing to accomodate the issues people have with your delivery, actually, your responses lead me to believe you are unable to even attain an understanding of the problem.

Gabriel wrote:

In fact, if people get so upset, what's so hard about ignoring my answers?

As is stands right now, "people" pretty much includes the entire DU member population. If we all are ignoring your posts, which we shouldn't have to do, then that begs the question of why you should post at all. You have a lot to offer, why not just compromise your method (not your message!!) so that it is not so counterproductive.

Gabriel wrote:

So what.

Your apathetic disregard for your readers is why these 'Gabby Sucks, Let's Ban Her' threads continue to surface every week.

Gabriel wrote:

People keep asking me questions, I will certainly give my Catholic perspective. I don't care if they disagree. I am willing to hear their argument and explain why mine may differ, but get upset? lol. How silly. What is this? InDenial Anonymous, wher all differing opinions causes a psychotic fit?

You can continue to tell yourself that these issues arise because people disagree with you, or whatever else you need to do that might help you cope. Fact of the matter is Gab, that the disapproval of your posts has nothing to do with people disagreeing with the message. Many do disagree, but the lack of approval is based on various aspects of your delivery which has been explained to you multiple time over.

Gabriel wrote:

The problem is not with me...{

Of course not, the problem is with me, TK, Andkon, the rest of the DU members, the protestant forum you got kicked off, and I imagine anybody else who has to endure a theological discussion with you. Couldn't be you though, to even consider such a notion is ridiculous.

Gabriel wrote:

Disagree with me and live with it. Stop whining.

The thing is, I don't disagree with you on a lot of stuff. The reasons you offer as support I don't always go along with, but the point itself is often in line with what I find to be true. Again, none of the problems being stated have to do with whether or not people agree with you.

Gabriel wrote:

For exampler, I read tknorris' debate in "the Arena", and I thought arguments were rather shallow, and I thought of a number of things that he could have said; but I don't go around telling people how and what they should say.

Nor are we telling you what to say...we are suggesting you reconsider the way you say it.

Gabriel wrote:

I happen to find your posts rather, well. nevermind.

That's rather immature. If you were sincere about "nevermind", then remove the entire sentence from your post. To leave it, as you have, and not finish it is just childish. If you have issues with my posts, then by all means say so.

Gabriel wrote:

What I said is very true. Not necessaryly about tknorris...

No, you specifically directed it at TK. You told him that he was better off being an atheist. Don't back peddal out of it via a poor attempt at nobility by expounding on general Christian persecution. I am aware of that already, and it has nothing to do with what I said to you. I had a problem with you directing it towards a specific individual when you had nothing to support such an accusation.

Gabriel wrote:

I thank God for my freedom. There are people who make great sacrifices to practice their Christianity in such countries, and that's what makes the denial or embarrasment of being a Christian in a free country so terrible, when, in a country where religion and free speech are a right, some people are still afraid to claim to be Christian, not for fear of persecution, but rather for fear of public opinion. This is shameful.

How can you accuse Mr Star and TK of being shallow, and then turn around an offer such a response to me. This has nothing to do with what I said to you.

davep
Not the resident astrologer

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 8533
Location: South Lincolnshire, England

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject:

Crowley wrote:

Yes, I suspect I am Dave. When I obsereve a group of people (in this instance, men) attacking, albeit verbally a lone individual (in this instance, a woman?) I tend to think bullying, which instinctively brings out the 'defender' of my sex in me. I guess the 'sisters under the skin' comes out in me.

So if we had a poster making posts like Gabby and it was known that the poster was a man, and the arguments they made were equally as rubbish, you wouldn't give two hoots?

In essence you seem to be suggesting that the value of an argument in a general debate changes based on the sex of the person making the argument. Or...

Crowley wrote:

Consequently when these comments were aimed at Gabriel, the deja vu feelings were working overtime.

...are you simply saying that the choice of personal insults used by a couple of people on here means that this causes you to view anyone who disagrees with Gabby as part of some male attack squad, some little bulling clique?

Crowley
Freudian Slip

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 1285

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:26 pm Post subject:

gone. Last edited by Crowley on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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