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Intelligence has evolved because it has been useful and has helped us to survive and spread. Our intelligence shows the imprint of what has designed us. It isn't the intelligence you would design into a plaything in a vivarium, a puppet of a god. It is an intelligence that is best suited for that phenomenally difficult task of living a social life. What we are phenomenally good at is judging people.
If you present a new experience to a pigeon it will peck at it. A dog will sniff it. A child will stick it in its mouth and a person will try to work out what it is for. It is hardly surprising that our species has found a universe and come up with several alternative explanations about what it's for. Of course universes aren't for anything. They just are, just as rocks are not for anything, they just are. Purpose comes from complex systems. Our brains are so determined to find purposes in everything that they over-apply a helpful rule.
A universe doesn't need a purpose because there is nothing outside it to have any need, aim or desire. There can be no problem to which a universe is a solution because there is nothing for the problem to be about and nobody to have a problem.
The question of who will punish tyrants is an interesting one. The answer is us, they will punish themselves or nobody will punish them. Pretending there is a god who will punish those we don't get around to punishing does not make it so. There is an absurd but unexplored idea among the religious that you have to believe in a god otherwise people will not be punished, as if believing in the god will make the god real! Tyrants like Saddam Hussein and Hitler are/were not afraid of God, either they don't believe in such a god or they do not believe what they do is wrong: the concept of god does not stop them from being evil. If people are not deterred by the idea of god being real why do you assume if the idea went away people would stop being good?
I do not lie, cheat, steal or hurt people. I do not do such things because I know they are wrong. I was taught to be considerate to other people, to consider their feelings and their rights and to trust that if everybody acts the same way life will be well worth living. Some parents do not teach their children this way, they do not say “don't do that, it's wrong to steal, how would you like your things to be stolen?” they say “don't do that, the police will take you away” which gives a very clear message - don't get caught. How is the myth of God (call him whatever you want) any different? It is saying don't do that because you'll be punished. I say we teach all our children and each other not to do wrong because it is wrong, and to explain why it is wrong, because it hurts people and damages their lives. Of course this will not stop people being evil if they choose to be, just as belief in gods has never stopped people being evil and criminal either, many thieves and murderers even swear oaths to their gods!
Are you a thoroughly evil person only kept from doing evil by your fear of your god? I wouldn't imagine that you are. As I know your god isn't real I know that whenever you refrain from doing something that is wrong but you are tempted to do it is your own internal morality that makes that choice. No doubt you explain it to yourself as doing the will of God but I make similar choices all the time and I don't have to give the credit to something beyond me. Whenever you do right your belief system rewards your god, whenever I do right mine rewards me. Of course your ego gets left out so it rewards itself by saying it is being good just by believing, by being “faithful” and by doing the will of Allah. These beliefs have hijacked your entire personality so every good feeling you have is a God feeling.
Who will restore the rights of the innocent? Nobody, unless we do so. I don't leave anything to God. That is why I am interested in politics. I can't see how you can be an atheist and ignore injustice. Naturally I don't have the capacity to right every wrong, I'm not a god, but I try to do what I can.
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
|
yes, intelligent is basic to know the purpose of every thing even universe, ourselves and our mind itself. universe and rocks have a purpose which is to know there is god to all these things. This accurate universe can never be a creation of coincident or have no purpose. By intelligence we know god, he gives us choice to do good deeds and get rid of bad ones, it is all our benefit not his.god creats us with seeds of good morals in our instinct, but we impurify ourselves when we use our minds and choices in bad deeds, so he punishes who did ill as they harm people by their deeds or deny god himself and that is a harm in god side. tyrant armies like america today, killing thousand and thousand and say we are leader of freedom, no body could face its tyrany. god gives us choice to stop such evil, and in return he is fair judge who will punish every single solider for his mistakes. For me i do good things because of his love,i know god wants good for every human beings even atheist, so i obey for i know it is good for man kind.i have no responsibility to punish any body for hurting peoples feelings, being ingratitude to his parent, being atheist and ingratitude to god's mercy on him, but god has after giving him choice and chances to repent. I feel happy after doing good deeds and after doing the prayers, i find reward in my heart from god, and i;m waiting for paradise after death.suppose there is no paradise or god after death, i have no thing to lose as i was happy on earth by being good man loved by people.But if there is god,i will be safe from hell and winner of paradise, in both cases i win. God leaves us to do good and evil willingly on earth,but he wants our pleasure to do good, so he creats loving of good in our hearts God is here by logic and experiment. by logic all animals and humans have father and mother in common, who is the creator of the first animal and human, who is the creator of the first rock in the universe is it coincident!!?? with such accuracy!! could u believe that a tower or apyramid is built by itself,what about such wonderful body of yourself or such miracalous universe? By experiment, many scientists prove that when u butcher a chicken, cow or baffulo, u should say besem allah, allah akabar-----it means in the name of allah, allah is the greatest when reciting these words during cutting the neck of the chicken makes it get rid of its blood and its meat is pure and clear from organisms of bacteria, on the contrary, any meat butchered with out recitting the mane of god as mentioned is full of bacteria even those animals that butchered by electric shock. This experiment is atrue evidence u can test it your self if u want sincerely the way of god may allah enlight your heart and give u the right path ahmad |
I have searched for evidence to back up your claim about Halal meat. Searching for “halal meat safe from bacteria” and “halal meat safer” produced no enlightenment, you seem to be alone in this fantasy, I cannot even find evidence for this belief on websites that promote Halal.
In Britain a large proportion of the meat marketed is Halal meat. In a recent survey 12 out of 25 “chicken” samples contained non-chicken DNA, which was either pork (11) or pork and beef, 11 of the 12 were labelled as Halal.
http://www.foodlaw.rdg.ac.uk/news/uk-03024.htm
Just why so much of Britain's meat is slaughtered in this barbaric way and mumbled over with some superstitious incantation is never adequately explored.
You are making the classic error of all religious people in assuming there are only two possibilities:
1 ] everything you have been taught is correct, if you do what you have been told to do you will receive a reward in paradise
or
2 ] it isn't true, when you die that's it.
You are forgetting the rather interesting alternative options. If Mel Gibson is right then you will simply be going to hell and the lake of fire for believing in the wrong story. All that faith and worship has actually done you a great harm.
http://mwillett.org/atheism/classic.htm#pascalswager
There are an enormous number of gods (not) out there. It is no more sensible to believe in one than another. Islam is based upon the idea that the one and only god needed to have one last prophet. It doesn't make any sense. If the only god was perfect he wouldn't need any prophets, it he needed one how can anybody be sure he might not later need another one? There was no holy book telling of the need for one last prophet in the form Islam says he came, a rather ordinary form. There were no great signs from God that this was his only and final prophet, just some bloke who says he was god's final prophet.
What would you do if you came across somebody claiming to be God's last prophet? Believe him on the spot? There are currently HUNDREDS of God's last prophets alive and practising their charlatan tricks today. Go and find one, kiss his robes and find your path to enlightenment. Your prophet has done nothing that these guys are not doing now.
Here is one:
The Last Church (link removed)
This bloke claimed he had died and come back to life and he claims he can visit me, has visited me, on several occasions. When I ask him to prove it he comes over all prophetly and says it's up to me to find my spirit and the Truth of the Universe and similar stuff. He doesn't and can't prove he has visited me.
If the internet was around when Mohammed was around I would have been able to challenge him in the same way to prove his divine claims.
You have been brought up to believe that some time in the past things were very different to the way they are now. Today we know that people who claim to be prophets and messengers of god(s) are all crooks, madmen, deluded, charlatans and/or sexual predators. Why do you assume that things were ever any different? Has human or divine nature changed? What has changed is we are now much better informed and we are protected by science, rationalism and cynicism. We are not going to fall for stories of bull gods and thunder gods and gods of wine. But we have not yet managed to remove the stranglehold of established monotheistic religions which made headway when the intellectual climate was right for them to expand. I do not think we will ever see a new major religion start now. We are immune. New religions will be limited to cult following only. The age of the great religions forming has passed. Unfortunately the age of great religions thriving has not yet passed.
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
|
for last time i may write, u neglect much things of what i have written intentionally and twist facts just for your desires. yes, i know about islam firstly by education, but really i have read about much more religions and creeds and finally i'm convinced totally by heart and mind that islam is write secondly, i asked u to do such experiment by your self to test your intelligence and its reality not to depend on other's thoughts!!! islam believes in all prophets of god, they are all equal, with the same message of god. They verify what human have wronged in god religion, as jesus after moses. Mohamad is the seal and last of them, they are all brothers. Every one of them has his own miracles, Quran is the miracle of Mohammed. God challenges all creatures to write one single sura"some verses"like his own. this challenge makes millions believe in god, as no body could do that till know If u are in arabic tongue i may ask u hopping u may read and know the sublime and greatness of god, u may read its translation although it is not enough. Brother, if god could be seen by our eyes on earth, as if we sea sun, surely he is not god. How could a great creator put in a space of our eyes control. How could we bear his revelation. He makes in every single thing an evidence for his existence, look in your perfect body who creats it out of nothing. Could it happen by coincidence, so why it isnot repeated. Really,true that one may worship a wrong creed and lose every thing. If he confesses that there is a god he must read about religions asking god for the true way then he must know by heart and mind where is the way. I 'm asking u to read about religion and just READ the Quran,even its translation of meanings and call god just one time to guide u for truth. Best wishes from a muslim |
How do you define what a prophet is? My understanding of the matter is that Jewish prophets and Jesus are accorded a special status within Islam but that the claim that Mohammed is the last prophet is based solely on his own claims. I am currently engaged in a debate with a man who styles himself as a prophet, or at least tries very hard for people to get that impression while perhaps avoiding directly claiming to be a prophet himself.
Since the time of Mohammed there have been thousands of people who have claimed to be prophets. Some claim to be in the same traditions as the Jewish prophets but not of Jesus, some claim to be in a set of prophets that includes the Jewish prophets and Jesus but not Mohammed, some claim to be in a set that includes everybody you acknowledge as a prophet and themselves and others claim to be in a set that includes all Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and other kinds of prophet too.
How can you tell who is a prophet? They all claim they are, or allow others to make that claim on their behalf. The ones that are taken seriously by anybody are pretty much by definition quite good as persuading people of their powers and godliness. How effective any prophet is must depend on the quality of the people in their inner circle, if a prophet can get a group of keen, intelligent and sincere people to believe them then they stand a chance of becoming acknowledged as a prophet. Without such a group it doesn't matter what the prophet says or does he will be dismissed as a heretic and/or lunatic. All prophets that have been acknowledged as prophets after their death have made an impact and gathered followers in their lifetime.
Just suspend your religious indoctrination for one moment and consider what would happen if a man claimed to be a prophet but wasn't. Or if that is too hard you can study one of those people you know to be false prophets. You know they are false, but how? You really have no way of knowing the difference. Joseph Smith was a prophet of the Mormon religion. 99% of the people who knew anything about him in his lifetime knew he was a charlatan and crook. Today there are millions of people who know as clearly and sincerely as you know about Mohammed that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. More recently there was a second rate science fiction author called L Ron Hubbard who was widely known to be interested in the possibility of making a lot of money through setting up his own religion. Now he is the late lamented leader and prophet of the cult of Scientology. Some people actually believe his absurd claims and I have no doubt that many or even most of them are fully sincere, as sincere as you are.
God did not smite Joseph Smith or L Ron Hubbard. Or any of the hundreds of would-be messiahs and prophets who did not attract enough followers to found a religious movement to survive their death. Can you really say that God will ensure that true prophets are acknowledged and false ones shown to be false? About a billion people acknowledge Mohammed as a prophet, but five times that number do not. I'd be surprised if more than three million people in the whole history of humanity have been converted to any religion by just picking up a holy book on a whim and reading it. That is not how religions spread, while I am sure that it has happened it is not the main way religions spread. Most people, no doubt yourself included, are introduced to religion by their parents. The second most common method of accepting a religion is direct personal recruitment. In both of these two methods the new recruit is told that faith is good, belief is good, a particular belief is correct and this belief has been held for centuries. No real evidence is offered and questioning and doubt are explicitly taught to be wrong. You are told there is a holy book, it tells the truth, the only truth and you must believe it or be evil and in many cases expect punishment after death, or in the case of most Islamic countries there and then as well.
I am continually being told that the evidence for God is all around me. I seen none. I see a great universe in which man plays a small role. On Earth the role of man is large but Earth is a tiny speck compared to the whole universe. Holy books such as the Bible and Quran tell of the magnificence of the sun, moon and stars but reveal the extent of their author's ignorance of the true nature of the universe by doing so. We now know that the universe is massively bigger than the authors of these holy works knew or could even begin to imagine. The holy books of prophets know nothing of the age of the Earth, the variety of species, the size of the Earth, the relative size of the sun, the relative insignificance of our solar system and galaxy. The universe of such dead dull books is small, puny and man-shaped. So is their god.
Before 1859 nobody knew the single most important fact it is possible for an intelligent species to know. Every account of man's place in the universe written before that date is fundamentally and irredeemably wrong. No matter how many people believe it, no matter how many people were killed to prove it, the stories in your holy book are wrong. No book can give you a recipe to live by because there is no god to write it and all prophets are false prophets for that same reason. We, mankind, have evolved. We have not been created perfect, we have been shaped by forces that need not be understood. Evolution is the only mechanism that can create a solution to a problem that is not understood. This property can be tested and proven, selective breeding, both of living organisms and inanimate things such as software, games strategies and other designs can bring forth novel solutions which work without there needing to be any conscious design. Man does not understand how to make a horse but by controlling the breeding of horses, in ignorance, selecting faster horses each time, man can design and bring forth a faster horse.
My body is not a perfect body. I have a tail that does not stick out, I have eyes that are built inside-out, I have a throat that risks suffocation every time I eat. The human body does not show the shape you would design into it if you were an all wise, all powerful magical god starting with a handful of mud. It is the shape you would expect to see if you started with an ape.
The universe is many orders of magnitude bigger and more complex than the scientifically illiterate prophets and holy book writers knew. The real truth is much more interesting, much more inspiring and much more instructive than all the holy books every written. Allow yourself to appreciate and enjoy the universe some time. It will open your eyes. There's no need to thank me, or any god.
Live your life and make what meaning of it you can. If you screw up this life or if you live it to perfection you will not get another one.
I hope the lifestyle comes together,
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/